Ralph Jones
(Top Gun)
12/10/17 05:33 PM
Win 10 networking

Here's a Windows networking problem that's been giving me fits since the switch to Win 10. There are four Win 10 hosts on my network: HELOISE, BOUDICCA, GILGAMESH and HIPPOLYTA. There is also a Linux/Samba host, ABELARD. All hosts are wired to a Netgear R7000 router except HELOISE which is on Wifi, and all can access the Internet without problems.

BOUDICCA, HELOISE and HIPPOLYTA can access the other two freely in Windows File Explorer. But GILGAMESH, while it sees all the host icons, can't access ABELARD or HIPPOLYTA. Clicking on them gives error 0x80070035, "network path not found".

Every host can ping every other host, by name or IP, and every Win host can Putty into ABELARD.

All the Win hosts are running the same Kaspersky installation, and turning its firewall off has no effect.

Googling the error number produces several pages of results, most of which come down to enabling NetBIOS over TCP/IP, which I've done without result.

Suggestions?


John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
(Top Gun)
12/10/17 06:34 PM
Re: Win 10 networking

I'm no Windows networking expert.

How current is the SAMBA code on your Linux Host? I'm wondering if it is communicating using some older version of some Windows networking protocol?

The thing that always confused me about Windows networking is that some of it is layered on top of TCP/IP (most all of it now, as I understand) but in the old days, there was WINS networking, and NETBIOS, which often seemed to exchange the same information in different ways.

If it were me, I'd Google up something about turning off "older" networking on Windows 10 machines, just to help eliminate that as a source of confusion. I would also check out SAMBA with WIndows 10 to see if that requires any updates or tweaks.

John


Ralph Jones
(Top Gun)
12/10/17 06:42 PM
Re: Win 10 networking

The Samba code has been updated recently, and more important, it works fine with two of the Win hosts. Acronis is backing up BOUDICCA and HIPPOLYTA into Samba RAID shares just fine, but it fails from GILGAMESH.

Ray Tackett
(Top Gun)
12/10/17 07:53 PM
Win 10 networking

Is GILGAMESH really a member of the correct workgroup/domain, or is there a
typo in the name?

Does the user ID on GILGAMESH have appropriate permissions for the shares on
the other machines? Are its user ID and password spelled the same as they
are on the share permissions lists on the other machines?


Ralph Jones
(Top Gun)
12/10/17 08:05 PM
Re: Win 10 networking

Quote:

Is GILGAMESH really a member of the correct workgroup/domain



Yes, and it was functioning normally up to some time in the last month.

Quote:

Does the user ID on GILGAMESH have appropriate permissions for the shares on the other machines? Are its user ID and password spelled the same as they are on the share permissions lists on the other machines?



Yes. Same user is present on all hosts.

Additional items: Network Discovery and File Sharing are turned on on all hosts; likewise "Use user accounts and passwords". Name of the workgroup is the Win default, WORKGROUP.


Russell Holton
(AVSIG Member)
12/10/17 10:47 PM
Re: Win 10 networking

When you say Windows 10, what version? Pro, Home, Basic?

There's a limit to the number of connections Windows will allow. I'm unable to find the limit on anything other than Pro, which is 20 connections. But that's for each thing, such as shared printers, file system, etc. I'm just wondering if you're exceeding the allowable connections.


Ray Tackett
(Top Gun)
12/11/17 06:38 AM
Win 10 networking

Last idea from my aging brain: Might you have lost a network drive mapping
which was supposed to have been persistent? E.g. net use w: \\isolde\wagner
... /persistent:yes

I have one machine which has a batch script in its startup group. The first
thing the script does is map a non-persistent drive to sync itself with
another machine. Sometimes the networking doesn't come fast enough for the
script. Perhaps the DHCP client doesn't do its job quickly enough.
Rerunning the script manually right away fixes the problem.

Dunno how it looks on W10, but on my ancient home planet, My Network Places,
View, Refresh might offer a clue. For example, the other systems might
disappear when you do that.


Ralph Jones
(Top Gun)
12/11/17 09:41 AM
Re: Win 10 networking

GILGAMESH runs Pro, and can't hit the Linux box, so that seems not to be a factor. BOUDICCA runs Pro, HIPPOLYTA Home.

Ralph Jones
(Top Gun)
12/11/17 09:46 AM
Re: Win 10 networking

I don't do any active mapping at all; each Win host just uses its own C drive. But I think I'll experiment with net use this morning.

Sometimes a host will disappear from File Explorer after a reboot, and Refresh brings them back more quickly than just waiting, but doesn't alter anything.

Curiouser and curiouser...


Ralph Jones
(Top Gun)
12/11/17 11:22 AM
Re: Win 10 networking

OK, 50% success. A net use command cleared up the access from GILGAMESH to HIPPOLYTA, and that path is now OK. But the same didn't work for ABELARD, the Samba box:

net use \\abelard\ralph (from GILGAMESH)

produces a request for username and password, and it rejects the password I give. (Note: the Samba credentials are set the same as the logon credentials). Entering the same command from any other Win host sails right through.


Russell Holton
(AVSIG Member)
12/11/17 12:55 PM
Re: Win 10 networking

Quote:

produces a request for username and password, and it rejects the password I give.



That sounds like a big clue right there. For some reason, the login isn't synced, doesn't work on that share, exceeded the connection limit or something like that.


Ralph Jones
(Top Gun)
12/11/17 01:30 PM
Re: Win 10 networking

Trouble is, the same request goes right through from the other two Win hosts, and there are no hosts on the network with different passwords. And the Samba box accepts ping and Putty from all hosts, by name or IP.

Ray Tackett
(Top Gun)
12/11/17 02:13 PM
Win 10 networking

Connection limit exceeded produces an explicit error message to that effect.

Ray Tackett
(Top Gun)
12/11/17 02:13 PM
Win 10 networking

OK! I would really, really check the fine print on the GILGAMESH user
ID/password versus the rest of WORKGROUP.

P.S. Your system names are great. My wife's first initial is "H", so the
workgroup and wireless network names here are "rhfactor".


Russell Holton
(AVSIG Member)
12/11/17 02:36 PM
Re: Win 10 networking

Quote:

Connection limit exceeded produces an explicit error message to that effect.



I couldn't remember if that's the case. From long experience, I try not to take error messages at face value but think what else is going on at the same time that it might be having a problem with. That's mostly due to application programs that have less then terrific error handling. The OS is usually pretty good about giving precise error messages.

As for the login, I think on unix boxes, the user ID can be case sensitive. Windows, I don't think cares - just on the password.

Ok, wild thought - make sure all the keys on the keyboard that make up the ID/Password work ok. ;)


Ralph Jones
(Top Gun)
12/11/17 02:40 PM
Re: Win 10 networking

HELOISE was retired recently, but may be back soon...;-)

Ralph Jones
(Top Gun)
12/23/17 01:53 PM
Re: Win 10 networking

Well, after chasing a lot of false leads, here's where it is: Link

In other words, Windows 10 version 1703 thru 1709 broke networking, hard, and Microsoft is taking their own sweet time.


Russell Holton
(AVSIG Member)
12/23/17 02:55 PM
Re: Win 10 networking

"Looking in the mirror and saying candyman 3 times will not solve the issue."

Dang, that's bad.

In reading the thread, Microsoft will NOT be fixing it. The "Master Browser" function has been left behind. It's going to be up to the other folks (like Linux) to get with the new standard that replaces it.


John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]
(Top Gun)
12/23/17 03:52 PM
Re: Win 10 networking

Quote:

In reading the thread, Microsoft will NOT be fixing it. The "Master Browser" function has been left behind. It's going to be up to the other folks (like Linux) to get with the new standard that replaces it.




Yes, that is my interpretation of that thread as well.



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