John Graff
(Top Gun)
10/21/06 05:11 PM
NWA & Boeing 787s [Financing Secured]

Sat, Oct 21 2006

Northwest To Get Its Dreamliners

Long-Haul Jets To Work International Routes

"Northwest Airlines has secured the financing necessary to acquire 18 new Boeing 787 Dreamliners over the next three years. The carrier has not released financial details, but says it's reached an agreement with Boeing and Rolls-Royce.

In a release on the company's site, Northwest CEO Doug Steenland said, "The agreements reached with Boeing and Rolls-Royce are key accomplishments in our efforts to modernize and restructure the Northwest fleet as part of an overall plan to position Northwest for the long-term."

None of the companies involved released any pricing information, but Boeing's 787s list for some $150 million each. Airlines can generally cut a deal for quite a bit less than that.

Northwest is still struggling financially under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. It has not decided whether to buy or lease the jets. The deal is still subject to approval by the bankruptcy court.

The carrier says the jets will sport Roll-Royce Trent 1000 engines. The order, originally placed in May 2005, gives Northwest an option for 50 additional aircraft.

The company plans to have its first 787 in service by October of 2008.

Northwest is the first North American customer to order Boeing's 787, but the jet maker says it has orders from 32 airlines abroad totaling 432 planes. Boeing says sales on those planes will total nearly $70 billion.

Northwest says it plans to use the 787s on its long-haul overseas flights. Those routes are currently serviced by older 747s and Airbus 330s. It's configuring the 787s with 36 business class and 185 coach seats.

The company says it's renegotiated contracts with Boeing and Airbus, as well as manufacturers for its regional fleets in an effort to reduce ownership costs. The reduced operating cost of the 787 and future aircraft is another key restructuring effort.

With those and other on-going cost-cutting measures in place, Northwest hopes to emerge from bankruptcy early next year."

FMI: www.nwa.com


Stephanie Belser
(Top Gun APC)
10/23/06 01:35 PM
Re: NWA & Boeing 787s [Financing Secured]

So they'll buy 787s. They'll still be the filthiest airplanes in the sky.

<g>

Stephanie


Joe Budge (W29)
(Top Gun)
10/23/06 02:11 PM
Re: NWA & Boeing 787s [Financing Secured]

Eeewwwww! Pan Am was like that in their later years, too. Needed to just take a hose to the inside of a couple that I rode on.

Regards,
Joe


Richard Duxbury (Dux)
(Top Gun)
10/25/06 01:55 PM
Re: NWA & Boeing 787s [Financing Secured]

Hi Avsigers -just back from a navy squadron reunion in florida, so have been off line for a few days. The good news is that the hangover is mostly gone.

Ya, in the 70's, NWA could get very large teams of cleaners at various Asia locations to quickly clean our new wide body aircraft. I mean VERY large hard working, non union teams.

The cleaning teams in USA were much smaller and more expensive.

Add on the requirement to keep these birds in the air a LOT, and increased cost of labor at most locations -yields dirty aircraft.

Load factors approaching 100% only make the problem worse.

International aircraft with long flights do indeed get very dirty with a lot of stuff. Shorter domestic flights don't have quite the same problems.

If it's too bad then passengers/travellers should just drive to their destinations and vacations. Or take the bus or AMtrack, which I'm sure are a lot cleaner than most Northwest aircraft?

NWA bought 22 new B747 in 1969-1970 (yes at 22M each). Then we also bought a batch of DC-10's. Both these aircraft carried more passengers than our coming 18, 787 fleet. A LOT more passengers.

Hi load factors, dirty aircraft, still somewhat cheap fares, bothersome security stuff, and, oh yes, an ever better safety record following an already outstanding record remains in our travelling future (IMO).

Yes, the medical profession is indeed looking at the commercial passenger aviation industry for help in the area of safety results.

Still if any major carrier could make a 2-3% profit margin it would be almost an all time record. Look at most other large industries which are in the 10% ball park. (Well Ford and GM are not looking so good right now, but banks, large farming, defense, and a lot more are indeed in the 5-10% range.)

Jet engine reliability is so good to be off the charts. Thus two engine long haul aircraft are much the norm for some time over great distances without airports. Never had a ditching to my memory, but the Azores B767 was indeed a very close call.

I guess we could have a potential future splash sometime, but I've been saying that for many years and events have proved ole Dux wrong.

And mywife and I routinely go to Europe on B767 aircraft or A330's.

Regards,

Dux


Randy Sohn
(Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres)
10/25/06 02:28 PM
Re: NWA & Boeing 787s [Financing Secured]

Dux - You missed mentioning the contents of that USA Today article (news for mental midgets) from a few days ago about this exact situation/problem! Cessation of virtually ALL in-flight food service by the airlines followed by the inevitable carry on food by the PX and, accordingly, a BIG increase in food wrappers/containers/flotsam being left on board in the seat backs, etc. Then the cut-back of cleaners!

Methinks a good time to be retarded!

best, randy


Dave Churchill
(Public Guest)
10/26/06 05:57 AM
Re: NWA & Boeing 787s [Financing Secured]

Quote:

Cessation of virtually ALL in-flight food service by the airlines followed by the inevitable carry on food by the PX and, accordingly, a BIG increase in food wrappers/containers/flotsam being left on board in the seat backs, etc. Then the cut-back of cleaners!




So which will happen: Restoration of cleaning service, restoration of food service, or neither? If I had to guess, I'd say the third option.


Stephanie Belser
(Top Gun APC)
10/26/06 06:03 AM
Re: NWA & Boeing 787s [Financing Secured]

Quote:

Dux - You missed mentioning the contents of that USA Today article (news for mental midgets) from a few days ago about this exact situation/problem! Cessation of virtually ALL in-flight food service by the airlines followed by the inevitable carry on food by the PX and, accordingly, a BIG increase in food wrappers/containers/flotsam being left on board in the seat backs, etc. Then the cut-back of cleaners!

Methinks a good time to be retarded!




"Mental midgets"? Isn't that a tad bit harsh? Not everybody flies the fiendly skies with any regularity.

Is "retarded" an airline term for "I'm not working for them anymore?"

Stephanie


Randy Sohn
(Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres)
10/26/06 06:11 AM
Re: NWA & Boeing 787s [Financing Secured]

D - re>>So which will happen: Restoration of cleaning service, restoration of food service, or neither? If I had to guess, I'd say the third option<<

Methinks that "you done broke the code!"

best, randy


Randy Sohn
(Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres)
10/26/06 06:32 AM
Re: NWA & Boeing 787s [Financing Secured]

Steph - re>>Mental midgets"? Isn't that a tad bit harsh?<<

"Doan think so!" But I surely dunno, I got that from a passenger getting off once, he came past and handed me a copy of the NYJ, IIRC a l-o-n-g article about that Challenger explosion, rubber rings and the Cape Canaveral condtions at launch. Nodded his head at a copy of that USA Today left on the F/C section's floor, sez to me "Here, read this one, this'll 'splain it a lot better than that thing written for mental midgets". But I try to read/watch them all <g>, "fair and balanced" ya'know? <chuckle>

>>Is "retarded" an airline term for "I'm not working for them anymore?"<<

Yup, seems to me like you "copy-copy" the situation, they don't seem to pay a lot of attention to what Dux or I might think/do.

best, randy


Stephanie Belser
(Top Gun APC)
10/26/06 07:08 AM
Re: NWA & Boeing 787s [Financing Secured]

Oh, I see. By "mental midgets", you were referring to people who get their news from "USA Today". In that, I concur.

Stephanie


Randy Sohn
(Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres)
10/26/06 09:41 AM
Re: NWA & Boeing 787s [Financing Secured]

Quote:

Oh, I see. By "mental midgets", you were referring to people who get their news from "USA Today". In that, I concur.

Stephanie




Well Steph, as one of my high school classmates used to say when someone got it almost correct, "Pert nert - but not plumb", if I'd been writing that sentence I'd of inserted an "all" in there so that it would've read "referring to people who get *all* their news from "USA Today".

best, randy (chao, gotta run, I gotta be down at the truckstop 6 minutes ago)


Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
(Top Gun)
10/26/06 02:41 PM
Re: NWA & Boeing 787s [Financing Secured]

>>but the Azores B767 was indeed a very close call.<<

Umm, A330? And if you're going to sit there without noticing that you're pumping all the fuel over the side, you can do that in a ten-engined airplane as easily as a two-engined airplane.


Joe Budge (W29)
(Top Gun)
10/26/06 02:56 PM
Re: NWA & Boeing 787s [Financing Secured]

Quote:

So which will happen: Restoration of cleaning service, restoration of food service, or neither? If I had to guess, I'd say the third option.




I'm guessing the fourth option: "We'll sell you this crumby snack box for 5 bucks and prohibit you from bringing your own messy food on board." You heard it here first. Gag!

Regards,
Joe


Randy Sohn
(Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres)
10/26/06 04:32 PM
Re: NWA & Boeing 787s [Financing Secured]

B - Concur.

re>>And if you're going to sit there without noticing that you're pumping all the fuel over the side, you can do that in a ten-engined airplane as easily as a two-engined airplane<<

But anyone here for discussing "by-the-book"/computer solutions <g>?

best, randy


Bruce Gorrell [EQY]
(Top Gun)
10/26/06 04:54 PM
Re: NWA & Boeing 787s [Financing Secured]

Sometimes the book runs out of pages. That's when you have know the systems.

Randy Sohn
(Gradn Exlated Ordre of teh Fyling Fingres)
10/26/06 05:54 PM
Re: NWA & Boeing 787s [Financing Secured]

B - re>>Sometimes the book runs out of pages<<

True, but sometimes it only takes one (first) page for someone sitting at a "BMD".

>>That's when you have know the systems<<

Again, concur to the Nth power! To quote my ole "light running" chum from Big Spring/Lomax, "I think you done broke the code!"

best, randy


Steve Stombaugh (IND)
(Public Guest)
11/03/06 03:34 AM
Re: NWA & Boeing 787s [Financing Secured]

Quote:

I'm guessing the fourth option: "We'll sell you this crumby snack box for 5 bucks and prohibit you from bringing your own messy food on board." You heard it here first. Gag!

Regards,
Joe


Yeah, I worry about that.

Lots to mull over, after a trip IND>MSP>SEA>MSP>IND last week. Unfortunately, in my new job, more airline repositions than before (this one was vacation). Learned to bring my own food, as the gourmet pretzels get tiring. Didn't know, besides not getting an aisle seat for the requisitive $15, that NWA charged $2 or $5 for the 'pretzels'. Glad anymore to stop at the local Panera and grab a sandwich or salad to carry on board, probably ought to bring extras and make a profit, as most look at me in envy (to avoid thread creep, I do give the remnants to the F/A).

And, might as well stick this in.... I know the TSA changed the 'rules', but much appreciate MSP having restaurants inside security, as opposed to IND where you must leave security to get decent (sic) food. Did have to laugh at the airline pilot (we're in MSP, so you guess the flavor) sitting at the table next to the soda machine, drinking multiple cups of soda from his 'water' glass.....maybe he had to pay for the newspaper that morning?

Oops, one other question? F/A on one of the flights had an FAA 'license' hanging around his neck (it was of the new green/blue badges). When I asked him what license he held, he told me that all F/A's are now FAA-licensed? He went on to tell me about all the training required of F/A's, and about 'ALL' that lost their licenses when 'they' started doing ten year background checks???



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