Scott Dunham (RDU)
(Top Gun)
12/15/17 10:48 AM
Re: Las Vegas Weirdness - KHND Departure

I was a little slow getting on this, but I talked to their TRACON procedures guy (I know him from a previous investigation - smart dude) and he’s looking at what they do with HND - no answer yet. Under the circumstances they didn’t give you a lot of good options except to “agree”, but as far as I can tell they’re not running a legal operation the way you described it. He confirmed that they don’t have a “diverse vectoring area” established that would allow them to assign headings off the ground, so without assigning an alternative obstacle SID or use of the standard ODP, they’re kind of stuck dumping it on pilots....except they can’t really do that, either.

What they specifically can’t do at a towered airport is have it both ways, where you’re responsible for their heading.

As a possibly acceptable out on a nice day, you could request a VFR climb through XXX altitude, which should alleviate all of their traffic and terrain concerns below XXX. They might even let you turn on course sooner, depending on what’s going on with traffic above XXX. Unfortunately, not all controllers are fully aware of how to use VFR restrictions so you might get some unexpected responses...

More to follow...

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